This is the second part of a report on the talk session held at Hankyu Umeda in June, titled "Living as your imperfect self," featuring freelance announcer Mika Horii, and Takaya Matsuda and Fuminori Matsuda. The discussion revolved around how to confront one's values through the medium of art.

Mika Horii Talk Session - Living as your imperfect self. Click here for the first part.

Bringing Pure Expression to the Market: The Difficulty of Decision-Making

Horii: When you bring something so pure to the market, I imagine you encounter the challenge of needing it to be accepted by a large number of people. Is there anything you're particularly careful about when releasing something to the market?

Fuminori: At HERALBONY, we have an approval period (confirmation period) for all products and initiatives to confirm the artist's intent. Even for collaborations with companies, we always communicate the project details to the artist themselves, their families, and facility staff, and only release it to the world after receiving confirmation.
What's important then is not to assume, "They'll probably be happy about this." Our wish is for it to truly lead to richness and happiness for the individual. The origin of this thought is my older brother, who has severe intellectual disabilities and autism. Not doing anything my brother would dislike is a core value that my twin brother and I share.

Horii: How do you go about communicating that intent? It must be quite difficult at times.

Takaya: Yes, it's very difficult. When an artwork is chosen, it's a truly happy occasion for the parents and facility staff, so it's challenging to judge whether the person themselves is truly okay with it.

Takaya: Decision-making support for individuals with severe intellectual disabilities is a major issue being discussed at the United Nations. What the person truly wants—how to understand that—is a very difficult problem.

For example, if I ask my brother, "Is this water tasty or not tasty?" he'll answer "Tasty." Conversely, if I ask, "Is it not tasty or tasty?" he'll answer "Not tasty."This is the law of echoing.However, families who have lived together for a long time can somehow understand how the person is feeling. But after parents are gone, how to interpret that intent becomes a major challenge.

Fuminori: That's why we believe it's necessary to research how we can more accurately gauge the person's intentions, including through visual methods and their artwork. HERALBONY is a company that has worked with many artists across Japan, accumulating experience in confirming their intentions every day. We want to leverage that knowledge to create a system that truly respects the artists' wishes and intentions.

Horii: Even as we go about our daily lives, you two are constantly pursuing various challenges, and I'm often surprised a few months later to see that "what they talked about then has come to fruition."

At the root of this is the role you both play as "translators" between individuals with disabilities and society. HERALBONY plays a significant role in connecting their intentions and expressions to society, but it would be wonderful if more people could emerge to bridge this gap in the future.

The Driving Force Behind Venturing into the Art World as Newcomers

Horii: There's so much I want to ask you both, the conversation never ends! (laughs). I personally feel that the art world has a unique culture. Even when I work with people involved in art, there are customs and values that have been cultivated over a long history, and a sense of "normality" and common sense exists there.

In such a world, I imagine it wasn't easy to promote HERALBONY and the expressions of artists with disabilities. What kind of difficulties and obstacles did you encounter in that process?

Takaya: Yes, for example,when we challenged Paris Fashion Week last year, we had the opportunity to speak with curators from the Metropolitan Museum of Art and MoMA. The world of contemporary art already has established rules and contexts. It's systematized as an academic discipline, with many critics, and there are evaluation criteria such as "What historical background does this exhibition have?" and "What context does it connect to?"

On the other hand, the realm of expression by individuals with disabilities has aspects that cannot be fully grasped by these existing frameworks alone. While concepts like Art Brut and Outsider Art exist, it's still an insufficiently organized field. How to position and deliver this expression to society is something we ourselves are still exploring and pioneering.

*Art Brut: A French term meaning "raw art," referring to expressions created with unique ideas and methods, free from formal art education or existing art culture.

*Outsider Art: Refers to expressions created outside of formal art education or existing art systems. It is sometimes used with a similar meaning to Art Brut.

Fuminori: "Art Brut," which refers to expressions by people without formal art education, is a concept born in France. In contrast, in America, there's the concept of "Outsider Art," which includes diverse expressions born outside the existing art system, regardless of whether the creator has a disability.
Currently, these two concepts coexist, each with different contexts and values. As a result, this field is highly specialized and a niche genre. There aren't many curators specializing in Art Brut, and globally speaking, it can still be considered a developing field.

Takaya: This field is very niche, and a well-established critical framework or market doesn't fully exist yet. Therefore, there's a lot of trial and error involved in how to collect works or how to present them. That's why I feel it's necessary to first create the market itself.

Hiromi Kurosawa, who served as chief curator at the 21st Century Museum of Contemporary Art, Kanazawa, has joined HERALBONY as an executive and is working to connect with the context of contemporary art, but there are still difficulties.

However, what's important is to first become an entity that reaches many people, more so than being evaluated within the art scene. To broaden social recognition and create a movement. After that, I believe evaluation from the art scene and new value creation will follow.

Fuminori: That's why we deliberately aren't trying to delve too deeply into only the world of contemporary art. HERALBONY has three main pillars: the "art" realm, which delivers original paintings; the "product" and "brand" realm, which integrates artworks into daily life; and the "IT" realm, which uses art data to create collaborations with companies.

We are carefully cultivating each of these areas, aiming to foster the expressions of artists with disabilities into a movement that takes root in society, rather than being a temporary trend.

Horii: When I hear you talk about wanting to create a movement, the process of that change itself is very enjoyable for us looking from the outside. Of course, while firmly holding onto core aspects like increasing recognition, it then expands into one new challenge after another. Watching that evolution, I naturally find myself anticipating, "What will they show us next?"
I'm sure you both have many ideas that we can't even imagine yet, and those are gradually taking shape. That's why I want you to keep moving forward. In that sense, simply watching your progress from the outside is something I greatly look forward to.

Beyond "Normal" to Embracing Your "Imperfect Self"

MC: To keep moving forward, I feel it's necessary to go beyond the values of "normal" or "obvious" that we unconsciously hold, or frameworks like labeling.

We might inadvertently draw lines between people and things. Horii-san, how do you feel about this "normal" or "obvious"?

Horii: That's right. What drew me to James Rizzi's paintings was how so many people and things mixed together, yet each existed naturally. It wasn't about one "distinctive character" standing out, but rather everyone being different, and that being the norm. That worldview resonated deeply with me.

That's why it's necessary for society to have various people, and it's important for us to get used to that diversity. In fact, if each person didn't hide their "I'm a little strange" side, then being "strange" would become normal, and society would be easier to live in, I think. As for me, due to my job as an announcer, I've lived with the label of "a proper person," but I'm now gradually shedding that armor of "being proper." Actually, I think those who are called proper are more restricted, and those who are called a little unusual are freer.

That's why it's incredibly powerful to see people who are called "unusual" living joyfully and happily. I believe that "joy" is a very quiet revolution, and that joy can gradually help us shed our individual stereotypes and labels.

Fuminori: That's absolutely right. Listening to your story just now, I was reminded of Shintaro Aoki, an artist at Kibou no Sono, a welfare facility in Mie Prefecture. Mr. Aoki just keeps drawing circles. Once, when I went to see his work, I thought, "This would be a wonderful piece if he stopped here." But Mr. Aoki kept drawing without stopping, moving his hands until the paper was tattered.

When I finally saw the completed work, it was astonishingly cohesive, and a world I couldn't have imagined had emerged. Mr. Aoki has his own sense of "end" and "completion." It reaffirmed for me that beyond what we consider "proper" or "finished" lies extraordinary expression and immense energy.

Click here for Shintaro Aoki's artist page>>

Horii: Actually, I'm currently building a kind of base for myself deep in the mountains on an island that's hard for people to reach. I've installed running water and electricity, and the toilet is a proper flush toilet with a bio-treatment system that drains into the sea. While it has a roof and side walls, the front opens out towards the sea. So when you sit down, you can gaze at the ocean while relieving yourself (laughs).
I already live a pretty free life, but from now on, I want to live even more freely, more honestly to my own senses.

Fuminori: What kind of process led you to be able to make that choice, and how did you decide?

Horii: Well, as I gained more freedom and enjoyed more things, it just kept multiplying by two, then three. It's like taking a step forward and thinking, "Oh, I can do this, I can do that too."

Special Guest Nami Kishida Appears

Fuminori: Finally, Nami Kishida, one of our artists, is actually here in the audience with her family. Nami-san, if you wouldn't mind, could you say a few words?

(Applause)

Nami Kishida (hereinafter, Kishida): I'm a listener of Horii-san's podcast, "OVER THE SUN," so I'm a little nervous (laughs), but I have one question.

Announcing, radio, and podcasts are all about "words." But when I see the expressions of artists with disabilities, I feel a power that transcends words, and sometimes I think, "Words are powerless." Horii-san, do you ever feel that some things can't be conveyed through words, or experience the frustration of words?

Horii: Of course, there are many things that can't be conveyed through words. Conversely, sometimes emotions can be communicated just by the timing, expressions, or by being silently in the same space as someone. There are times when even just seeing someone's back can convey a feeling.

So, the "words" we're exchanging now are convenient, but if you ask if they're absolutely necessary, they might not be.

Because just by being together, anger, joy, and love can be conveyed, and sometimes no matter how many words you string together, nothing gets across. Words, while very powerful, can also be very troublesome.

Kishida: That's really true. The longer you spend time together, just like Mr. Matsuda's story about his older brother, you gradually start to understand things without words, like "He's in a bad mood today" or "He doesn't like this."

Horii-san, when you yourself think, "I don't like this!", how do you express that feeling?

Horii: I'm an adult, so I don't lash out at people when something bothers me (laughs). But when I'm alone, I might find myself thinking things like, "I hope that person misses their train," or "I wonder if a bird will poop on them." I'm only human, after all.

Takaya: I see, you turn it into a curse, then (laughs).

Kishida: Speaking of which, I really think being twins is great. There's a true understanding between you.

Takaya: Well, my LINE with Fuminori is indeed full of outrageous messages. And that's actually really good. We can truly speak our minds without any reservations. During an all-hands online meeting, right after Fuminori finishes speaking, I'll immediately send him a blunt message criticizing something (laughs).

Fuminori: We can tell each other things like, "Your talk was boring," or "I don't think anyone will be moved by this." We give each other feedback (laughs).

Kishida: Even after spending such a long time together, there are still so many unknown things and new discoveries, aren't there? I imagine you also encounter many surprises when working with HERALBONY's artists over time, thinking, "They express themselves like this!" or "They had this side to them!"

That's precisely why there's still so much potential in interacting with people without relying solely on words. I have very high hopes for that.

Takaya: That's absolutely true. Thank you.

▪️Profile
Mika Horii
Freelance announcer, narrator, recitation artist. Born on March 22, 1972, in Akita Prefecture. After graduating from Hosei University with a degree in Law, she joined TBS as an announcer in 1995. She appeared in numerous TV and radio programs, including "King's Brunch" and "Kume Hiroshi Radio Nandesukedo," and gained high acclaim for her narration work. In March 2022, she left TBS to become a freelance artist. Currently, she serves as a personality for the popular podcast "Jane Su and Mika Horii's OVER THE SUN" and presides over the recitation activity "yomibasho PROJECT," engaging in a wide range of activities centered on voice and words. Her books include "Ittan, Taisha. 50-sai kara no Dokuritsu Nikki" (Once, I left the company. My independent diary from age 50), "Ondoku Kyoushitsu" (Recitation Classroom), and "Kiki-Poshi no Susume" (Recommendation for a Good Listener).

▪️Items worn by speakers
Items worn by Mika Horii
Knit Combo Dress "Night View" ¥39,600 (tax included)

Items worn by Takaya Matsuda
Easy Care Art Panel Short Sleeve Shirt "Untitled" ¥29,700 (tax included)

Items worn by Fuminori Matsuda
Easy Care Art Panel Short Sleeve Shirt "Untitled" ¥29,700 (tax included)

Special Guest
▪️Profile
Nami Kishida
Author. Born in 1991, from Kobe City, Hyogo Prefecture, graduated from Kwansei Gakuin University, Faculty of Human Welfare, Department of Social Entrepreneurship in 2014. During her studies, she joined Mirairo Co., Ltd. as a founding member, serving as PR Manager for 10 years before becoming an independent author. She has expanded her activities to include TV appearances, podcast programs, and scriptwriting. Global Shapers at the World Economic Forum (Davos Meeting). Selected for Forbes "30 UNDER 30 JAPAN 2020" and "30 UNDER 30 Asia 2021." Her books include "It wasn't because they were family that I loved them, but because I loved them that they were family," which was adapted into a drama, as well as "Mou Akan Wa Nikki" (I'm No Good Diary), "Kasa no Sashikata ga Wakaranai" (I Don't Know How to Hold an Umbrella), "Akipoi Kara, Aipoi" (Because I Get Bored Easily, I Fall in Love Easily), and "Kokudō-zoi de, Daijōbu 100 Kai" (100 Times "It's Okay" by the National Road).

Items worn by Nami Kishida
Silk Scarf "Kimochi" ¥24,200 (tax included)