“HERALBONY TONE FROM MUSEUM ~The Listening Museum~” is a podcast that focuses on the contracted artists of HERALBONY, a welfare experiment company launched this spring.

Sara Ogawa, an actress, filmmaker, and writer, and Takaya Matsuda, CEO of HERALBONY, host the show. They listen intently to the art, delving into the personality of the "unique artist" whose work they are discussing and exploring their life story.

The guest for this episode is Kazumi Kamae, a unique artist who creates clay works at Yamanami Kobo, a renowned name in the art world. Masato Yamashita, director of Yamanami Kobo, who is essential to understanding her work, also joined them. Please enjoy the duo's banter, which is reminiscent of a comedic husband-and-wife act.

Ogawa: What kind of person will be joining us today?

Takaya: Today we have Kazumi Kamae from Yamanami Kobo in Shiga Prefecture as our guest. Yamanami Kobo is a place that people in the art industry, and even overseas, say, "Yamanami Kobo? That's amazing!"

Ogawa: Oh. I'm looking at photos of the work here, and it's made of clay, right?

Takaya: That's right.

Ogawa: I can't imagine how someone could create such intricate shapes out of clay, like faces or three-dimensional objects! At first glance, it felt soft, almost like it was made of yarn.

Takaya: Actually, all of Ms. Kamae's works are based on the director of Yamanami Kobo, Masato Yamashita.

Ogawa: I see.

Takaya: The reason Ms. Kamae's work has such softness is because she absolutely adores Mr. Yamashita. I think that's where the gentleness and warmth come from. And Mr. Yamashita is also joining us as a guest today!

Ogawa: Oh!

Takaya: So, today we have Kazumi Kamae herself and Director Masato Yamashita joining us online, and we'd like to ask them about the origins of her creations.

Director Yamashita: Hello. I'm Yamashita from Yamanami Kobo.

Ms. Kamae: Nice to meet you. I'm Kazumi Kamae.

Ogawa & Takaya: Ms. Kamae, Mr. Yamashita, nice to meet you!

Ogawa: So, let's hear about Ms. Kamae's work right away.

Director Yamashita: Yes! Please ask anything!

Takaya: Thank you (laughs).

Ogawa: Ms. Kamae, all of your works are modeled after Mr. Yamashita, aren't they?

Director Yamashita: Yes, it seems to be me.

Ogawa: Why Mr. Yamashita?

Director Yamashita: Why me, I wonder? (To Ms. Kamae) Why me?

Ms. Kamae: Uh... Because I love you.

Everyone: (Laughter)

Ms. Kamae: Because there's only Masato!

Takaya: I'm sorry for intruding on your private moment. (Laughs)

Ogawa: Oh, that's wonderful! My heart warmed instantly.

Director Yamashita: Oh, really? Mine's a bit cold, though. (Laughs) There seems to be quite a temperature difference between us.

Everyone: (Laughter)

Ogawa: Mr. Yamashita, was there a moment when you realized Ms. Kamae's feelings for you?

Director Yamashita: It's been 35 years since I came to Yamanami Kobo, and Ms. Kamae was already here back then. At that time, she was in love with a different man, I know that!

Everyone: (Laughter)

Director Yamashita: But those people left one after another, and I guess I ended up being the one who didn't leave. Is that okay?

Ms. Kamae: Yes, it's okay.

Director Yamashita: (To Ms. Kamae) When did you start making your artwork? You didn't even know about clay at first, did you?

Ms. Kamae: No, I didn't.

Director Yamashita: Why did you start working with clay in the first place?

Ms. Kamae: ...

Director Yamashita: You don't have a reason?! (Laughs)

Ogawa: Hehehe.

Director Yamashita: She's been doing it for about 15 years now. At first, she would just line up small, round clay balls. (To Ms. Kamae) We just practiced this! When I ask "Why do you make them with clay?", you're supposed to answer, "Because I want Masato to see them!"

Everyone: (Loud laughter)

Director Yamashita: I'm sorry. It's like this. (Laughs)

Ogawa: Your back-and-forth is just too perfect! So, you've been working with clay for about 15 years now?

Director Yamashita: That's right. About 15 years, I guess? Suddenly it was "Masato, Masato." (To Ms. Kamae) Why me? There are other, more handsome guys, you know?

Ms. Kamae: No.

Director Yamashita: Well, around that time, I also went to see people who were working with clay and saw various works and said, "Wow, that's amazing!" Then, before I knew it, Ms. Kamae also started working with clay. Her works were unlike anything I had ever seen before. They were interesting and she seemed to enjoy doing them. So, as I kept saying "Good, good! Make more of those!" every day, it gradually took its current form. Then, when I asked, "What are you making?" she said, "Actually, it's you," and from that moment on, I felt a little... not exactly a flutter, but a palpitation. It was more like breaking out in a cold sweat. (Laughs)

Everyone: (Loud laughter)

Director Yamashita: Ms. Kamae, why do you only make me? Hiroshi or Konishi would be fine too, wouldn't they?

Ms. Kamae: Oh, I don't like them anymore.

Everyone: (More loud laughter)

Director Yamashita: It's just an old man and an old woman saying whatever they want. (Laughs)

Takaya: So you're not making any works that aren't modeled after Masato anymore?

Director Yamashita: How about it? Have you ever made something about someone other than Masato?

Kamae-san: (Immediately) No.

Director Yamashita: She says no. But you know, her recent works always include Yamashita and "me" too.

Ogawa: Kamae-san herself?

Director Yamashita: That's right. So often one work has two faces. If you look at her recent works, it's things like "Masato and I swimming together in the Hawaiian ocean." I've never been to Hawaii! (laughs)

Ogawa: Her imagination is really expanding (laughs).

Director Yamashita: And other things like "Masato and I eating at a high-class hotel in Waikiki." It seems her works are created through these various stories of hers.

Ogawa: How do you decide on those settings and titles?

Director Yamashita: How do you decide?

Kamae-san: The titles are Hawaii, Wedding.

Director Yamashita: She often opens travel books and says, "Our next destination is here," like she has a Cinderella story in her mind. It seems she creates while dreaming of that. She's no longer confined to Japan; she's traveled around the world.

Ogawa: So through her creative work, she's traveling with Yamashita.

Director Yamashita: Even though I've never actually gone anywhere (laughs). Oh, but you're going to Tokyo next, right?

Kamae-san: Yeah.

Kazumi Kamae: "Me and Masato-san Looking at the Ocean"

Takaya: I also heard that Ms. Kamae sends Mr. Yamashita an email once or twice a day. Is that true?

Ms. Kamae: Yes, it's true.

Takaya: What do you send him?

Ms. Kamae: (Shyly) Ohh, that's a secret!

Takaya: A secret, huh?

(Ms. Kamae playfully hits Masato-san)

Takaya: Ahh! You two are hitting each other! (laughs)

Ogawa: It's almost a shame to just send this over the radio! I want to show everyone this scene! (laughs)

Facility Manager Yamashita: But you know, for the past 15 years, without missing a single day, she's been expressing all sorts of love to me. At first, it was letters.

Takaya: Ohh.

Facility Manager Yamashita: And there were thousands of them. Right?

Ms. Kamae: Hmm.

Facility Manager Yamashita: We also have a daily exchange diary, and if she can't do even one of those things, she gets in a bad mood. She'll destroy a nearly finished piece of work, so it's actually me who has to be careful.

Takaya: Ohh.

Ogawa: So, on top of seeing each other every day, she also sends letters and emails?

Facility Manager Yamashita: That's right. For her, creating art, sending emails, and writing letters are the only truly enjoyable and very important things in her life.

Ogawa: Mr. Yamashita, how do you feel when you receive such strong feelings from Ms. Kamae?

Facility Manager Yamashita: Well, what can I say? She's right next to me right now (laughs).

Takaya: Sara-san, that's a good question (laughs).

Facility Manager Yamashita: What can I say? To continue to think of one person devotedly, and to express and convey one's feelings without caring about appearances, that's something I forgot a long, long time ago. As a woman, she's wonderful, beautiful, you know. What about you, Takaya-san? If such a woman appeared. (To Ms. Kamae) You should start making art about Takaya-san from tomorrow.

Ms. Kamae: No! (Immediate reply)

Takaya: No, no, let's stick with "Masato-san" (laughs).

Kazumi Kamae: "Me and Masato-san Spending Time Together at the Art Center"

Ogawa: But the intricacy of this work is truly amazing. How do you make it?

Facility Manager Yamashita: She's asking you, "Why is it so intricate?"

Kamae-san: Why is it intricate? Like hair. It's tough on the shoulders, but I do my best.

Facility Manager Yamashita: You work so hard, you're amazing, old lady!

Kamae-san: I'm not an old lady!

Facility Manager Yamashita: My apologies.

Takaya: It's starting to sound like a comedy duo.

Ogawa: Really! So, you first harden the clay, and then how do you add these fine, hair-like elements?

Facility Manager Yamashita: I'm not that hairy myself. (To Kamae-san) How do you make them?

Kamae-san: With my fingers, I make things like grains of rice.

Ogawa: Huh, you make them with your fingers?

Facility Manager Yamashita: First, you crumple up newspaper like a dodgeball. Then, you slap clay onto the newspaper to create a base. You add eyes, a nose, a mouth, and then you attach tiny, rice-grain-sized pieces one by one.

Ogawa: Amazing.

Facility Manager Yamashita: It takes about one or two months to complete one piece. The clay work usually takes about an hour in the morning and two hours in the afternoon, right? About half of that time is spent napping, checking emails, or writing letters, isn't it?

Kamae-san: It is.

Facility Manager Yamashita: I guess she makes them while thinking about various things, like "cute" or whatever.

Ogawa: Wow. When you're making them, do you do it while looking at Mr. Yamashita's face?

Facility Manager Yamashita: That would be scary (laughs). Currently, she works in a different room on a different floor, but before, she always put her desk wherever I was and worked there. It was like "The Housekeeper Saw!" So, if I felt a piercing gaze, she would be looking at me from somewhere!

Ogawa: Amazing! Your artwork is truly wonderful, but are there any memorable moments from your everyday time together?

Facility Manager Yamashita: Are there any? Memories with me?

Kamae-san: Memories...

Facility Manager Yamashita: None, huh?!

Kamae-san: ...Tokyo.

Facility Manager Yamashita: Oh right, Tokyo. She wrote in a letter she gave me before, "I want to go to Tokyo with Mr. Yamashita someday," and I always thought there was no way that would ever happen. But then her work was accepted into an exhibition in Tokyo, and I ended up driving her there! (laughs).

Ogawa: Your dream came true! The power of your artwork, fueled by your passion, took you all the way to Tokyo.

Facility Manager Yamashita: That's right.

Ogawa: Where did you go in Tokyo?

Kamae-san: Tokyo.

Facility Manager Yamashita: I'm asking where in Tokyo you went (laughs).

Kamae-san: Skytree.

Facility Manager Yamashita: We saw the Skytree. We drove around, stopping at service areas too. But is it fun going with an old guy like me?

Kamae-san: It's fun.

Facility Manager Yamashita: Sorry for flirting (laughs).

Takaya: You're showing off (laughs).

Ogawa: So, is there actually a place where people can see such artworks?

Actually, right now, the exhibition "ART IN YOU - Art Is Within You" is being held at the SMBC Earth Garden in the East Building of Mitsui Sumitomo Bank in Otemachi, where you can view it. Ms. Hiromi Kurosawa, Chief Curator of the 21st Century Museum of Contemporary Art, Kanazawa, is curating it. It is open from Saturday, May 20, 2023, to Saturday, June 17, 2023. *I would be delighted if you could see Mr. Kamae's intricate works there.

*The exhibition has now ended.

Ogawa: So, Mr. Yamashita's face is in Tokyo, isn't it?

Facility Manager Yamashita: That's right. I really want people to see the artwork to figure out if it's really me or not. I'm a bit hurt when people say it looks exactly like me (laughs).

Ogawa: It really conveyed how well you two communicate and can say anything to each other. It was truly a wonderful time.

Facility Manager Yamashita: Oh, and on Saturday, June 3rd, she's going to be creating a piece at the venue.

Sugaya: That's right. Tokyo Love Story Part 2 is about to begin.

Facility Manager Yamashita: Stop it! (laughs).

Sugaya: I hope all of you listening to the podcast will come and see their husband-and-wife comedy act live (laughs).

Ogawa: Amazing! So Ms. Kamae will continue creating within the venue?

Sugaya: That's right. The SMBC Earth Garden at Mitsui Sumitomo Bank is a very large venue, and Mr. Kamae and Mr. Yamashita will be doing live art creation as the main event there, so I definitely want everyone to see it.

Ogawa: So, we might even get to see their combination live.

Sugaya: Not "might," but you definitely will!

Ogawa: It's a precious opportunity to see not only the artworks but also the artists themselves, so please do come and visit.

Sugaya: Mr. Kamae, do you have a dream of where you'd like to exhibit next?

Facility Manager Yamashita: (Whispers to Mr. Kamae)

Mr. Kamae: Yes, I do! Iwate.

Sugaya: You just whispered in her ear, didn't you?! (laughs)

All: (laughs)

Sugaya: Thank you. Iwate, we can do it anytime. But it might be far from Shiga. In that case, you'll spend more time with Mr. Yamashita, so that might be good.

Facility Manager Yamashita: I'll go anywhere. Please take care of me!

Ogawa: Perhaps, like the previous work, there's even Hawaii or overseas, right?

Sugaya: I think so! Oh, that reminds me, I went on a business trip to Paris last week. I met with the gallery owner for Christian Berst, an artist who is the only outsider artist to exhibit at Art Basel, and I heard that they are also collaborating with Yamanami Kobo's works.

Facility Manager Yamashita: About two years ago, we had a solo exhibition at Yamanami Kobo. We're planning to do something again around next year. I might even be taken to Paris by Ms. Kamae (laughs).

Sugaya: We also talked about working together with Christian Berst, so I'd be happy if we could collaborate when we're together again!

Facility Manager Yamashita: Thank you. By then, Ms. Kamae's favorite person might have changed from me to someone else though (laughs).

Sugaya: Christian Berst was also handsome, so you never know (laughs).

Ogawa: I'm really looking forward to your art-filled world travels in the future. Mr. Kamae, Mr. Yamashita, thank you so much for this truly heartwarming and wonderful time today!

All: Thank you very much!

text Chiyo Akasaka

This program, based on the concept of "The Story of Exceptional Artists as Imagined Through Their Art," invites listeners to tune into the art and discover the personality and life journey of the "exceptional artist" hidden within each work.

The show is hosted by Sara Ogawa, an actress, filmmaker, and writer, and Takaya Matsuda, CEO of Heralbony. Each episode features a different Heralbony contracted artist, with the artist, their family, and staff from their welfare facility appearing as guests.

New episodes are released every Sunday on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Spotify, and Amazon Music.

You can also enjoy past episodes for free.

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